Saturday, July 14, 2007

wannabees

howcome (it seems like) the only white guys who are intersted in black women, are the wanna-be ghetto, vanilla ice/k-fed type? i mean, seriously. i just see that a lot. i guess if a white guy is all into hip hop and the ghetto slang, etc., it goes without saying that he likes black women too?

are there white guys who resemble Chandler or Ross or Joey and don't listen to HIP HOP that like black women? now that seems rare to me. at least in MY neck of the woods. i bet that in california it's not that way, as the demographics are waaay different. but here in portland, chandler-type (white collar, educated, well-traveled, etc) white men aren't exposed to black women enough.

i met a friend downtown for lunch today and afterwards we stopped at old navy. there was a really cute black girl with a little mixed baby and a white guy. she glanced at me and smiled a funky smile as if to say, 'look what i got'. maybe that's not what she meant at all, but it sure seemed like it.
anyhow, her man was one of those guys, the white hip hopper, wannabe ghetto gangsta type. at least, that's how he appeared.

my theory is that people generally dress like the musicians they like. i mean, can't you usually tell what kind of music someone is into by the way they look? for example, when you see those goth people with the painted white face and all black with black hair and black lipstick, you know they don't listen to Jay-Z. so someone like that's not likely to be hanging out at places where there are lots of black people and undoubtedly date a black girl. or how often is total rocker dude smitten by a black girl who loves hip hop?

in my opinion, if a black girl wants to date a white collar white guy, she has to act white collar (i.e. listen to white music, be thin, speak proper english, etc.)
i know there are black women with white men who are not the hip hopper wannabe but from what i've seen in portland, the former is what's pretty typical. it's probably a little ironic that i'm even posting about this because my husband is a *reformed* mild wannabe hiphopper. i never liked when white guys would act that way so as soon as we got together and got serious, i changed his look REAL quick. now, after a few years he's just a white collar guy with some flavor.

18 comments:

Falone said...

Interesting that you write about this, because I was thinking the same thing. I feel like in IR relationships (or any, for that matter), there is always something that draws one person to the other. For example, my last bf was Middle Eastern Jewish/white, and he didn't listen to rock music at all. He was a staunch Motown, funk, etc fan. He actually got me into it lol. When I first met him, I used to think he was trying to act "hip-hop", but I came to realize he wasn't even though he identified with old school black music, more so than young Black Americans who listen to mainstream hip-hop and rap.

On the other hand, while I am not a huge fan of rock music, my preference has always been preppy white guys (who will eventually grow up to be be white collar guys lol). A female friend once told me that white guys like that don't date black girls, but I might have an easier time of because I grew up in Cranston (which, like your Portland, is very white... 89% lol), the way I look, dress, and speak. She may have had a point.

darrylclark said...

You are a bucket of contradictions. I guess that's what makes you beautifully human. I've been reading this blog off amd on for a while, and what I take from it about you is that you are very self-conscious, but not in a negative way, you just think too much, maybe. I'm kind of like that myself and if I dated a white woman I'd probably be you in the male form. Anyway, keep bloggin'!

Anonymous said...

Hi I came across your blog by accident and have read through many of your observations. While I understand that ultimately you have a right to your opinions and feelings all I feel is incredibly saddened at the extent of damage slavery and segregation has done to black people worldwide but particularly America. All I see when reading your blog is a frightened woman - frightened to express hersefl honestly and face to face with her fellow human beings; frightened to be mistaken as the stereotypical black female/person,; frightened that some black guys going about there business will somehow taint her and by extension - the entire black race. Concerned and obsessed at ALL times about race, what whites are thinking, why they are saying or doing this or that; frightened to return a laptop/get change from a store keeper because you cannot deal with the "issues" around it.Please please love yourself. Accept yourself. You are living breathing human being who has EVERY right to be on this planet. Like anyone else. This is presumptious but I can only wonder at your husband. Does he know about this blog? You often use him to avoid dealing with everday life yet he allows you to do this over and over again. Does he understand or try to undestand why you are so afraid and cowed down, why your self esteem is so battered down? How are you both working together to deal with this? Sister, please get help. I do not mean this in a derogatory way at all, but you need to start loving and accepting yourself immediately. I am a black woman living in the UK and have a lot of interest in black issues and support my fellow black people whenever I can. Without a doubt yours is the most tragic blog I have ever read. My heart truly aches for you and the cage you have inadvertently built around yourself. Please get out of it while you can.

Peace and God bless.

sprite.

GoldenAh said...

I dunno you (the blogger) sound rather normal to me.

I read your blog, and the situations you come up with - I would have the same thoughts.

I'm not married, and I live in a very white area. You never forget being black or a woman. It's not negative - just self-awareness.

I grew up in a mostly black area and I prefer the mostly white area (95%). The grief from living in a black area means you cannot walk a block without harassment or people shouting out their "thoughts" at you.

White people are polite and leave you alone. What can I say? That's my experience, that's my truth.

Anonymous said...

You're a very narrow-minded, deprived black person.

Anonymous said...

happy tuesday, tbg...

being as race is an up-front main theme of your blog, and being in an interracial marriage, i can see why my dating life is one of the most frequent things i find "relevant" to ideas you post.

and yes... you have a good point... kinda. my take is that people "relate" to other people based on their own identity of themselves, and and based on their preferences about what they like vis a vis the identity of others.

statistically, this probably plays out as you generalize... a white guy wannabe hip-hop boy is probably more open to dating interracially than a straight-laced white collar white guy.

BUT... reality is not so simple. i am an exception to your generalization... i'm a fairly straight-laced white guy. tempermentally, i'm probably somewhere between ross and chandler, and style wise, probably between ross and joey.

and i have had a positive experience dating interracially.

let's take the music example... i listen to a very wide variety of genres... alice-in-chains to beethoven, enya (earlier stuff) to garth brooks, india arie to led zeppelin, muddy waters to the white stripes, godsmack to nina simone, fiona apple to the police, the beatles to lenny kravitz... i dated an asian girl almost 10 years ago that i didn't connect musically with at all, i dated a black girl probably three years ago who i did connect with... she and i share an appreciation for some stuff on the 'metal' and 'industrial' side of rock. i have a black female friend who borrows my d'angelo and al green CD's, but just doesn't relate to the metallica and tchaikovsky sides of me.

i'm going to try to pull all this together with one example... remember how i said we all "relate" to each other via our own identity, and how we perceive the identity of others?

about a year ago, i met a girl in a bookstore, and a week later we had an amazing six hour date - we talked about absolutely everything and had a huge amount in common. she was very smart, very passionate about life and ideas, and beautiful. my kind of girl. and she was black. the day after the date we talked on the phone, we both said we enjoyed the night before, and we'd have to go out again soon. then the next day after that, something weird happened - she got offended at EVERYTHING i said (how are you today? a joke about doing laundry, music...). so i asked her what was wrong, and she said something like "and you wouldn't like me because i'm black, and because i'm poor". which were two strange statements, because we had been very comfortable together two days before, and she made $5,000 more a year than i did).

a realization that was driven home by all that is that perception is more important than reality - how we "see" ourselves and "see" others is more central to how we interact with individuals and the world than who we actually are, and who they actually are.

how i saw her was as one of the most intriguing and engaging people, male or female, that i had ever met... and on top of that she was attractive, and i liked her.

i'm not sure exactly what happened, because it seemed to me to come out of the blue, but somehow she started reading a negative slant into everything, including things we had discussed quite positively before. and she seemed to put the most emphasis on me not being able to understand her blackness, or her poorness.

it seems as if that day, she identified herself as being black, and being poor, and made the assumption that i could not understand these things. and nothing else mattered - because of this, our relationship went no further.

if two people have the perception that they can relate to another person, and that that person can relate to them... then they can interact, have fun, enjoy each other's company, date, start a relationship, marry, raise kids...

if there are two people, and if one or both of them have the perception that they are not, or cannot be on the same wavelength... then the result at the end of the day makes it "true". they don't end up connecting, they don't end up talking. they can't work together.

what we think we're going to get is a VERY strong influence on what we actually get.

-------------------------------

we see what we want to see... but that's kind of oversimplifying a little... we tend to bring about results that match our expectations... positive or negative.

-------------------------------

this girl focused on the differences between us... and it drove us apart... whereas if she had focused on what we had in common, it would have drawn us together.

as an example of that... since that date, i've had one relationship which has lasted most of that entire year... it's been off and on because we don't have a lot in common... but we've still found enough in common to be friends, to help each other out when needed, etc. because we, as two people, have looked for common ground, we have found it. we have "made" common ground, in a way.

but the potential for common ground was much, much, much higher with the relationship that went nowhere. we both like the same music, both have some similar aspirations in life, both enjoy philosophical, spiritual, and political discussions, both were in a bookstore looking for psychology gre test study books, our conversation flowed from topic to topic so, so, so much easier because we liked the same kind of stuff. BUT... there was one difference between us that was noticeable... i am a pretty moderate and middle of the road political animal, and this girl was a flaming liberal just short of socialist.

i accepted that she was different politically than me, but i sensed that she did NOT accept that i was different than her. and she did identify very strongly with her political beliefs.

is it possible that... despite the wonderful interaction we had initially, and despite how much she said she enjoyed the first date... that a couple of days later she re-hashed our conversations in her mind and decided she didn't like my politics because i don't share her socialist views?

i don't know... just speculating... but what i do know was that nothing actually changed between when she loved me and couldn't stop thinking about me... to a very short time later when she was twisting around everything i said and accusing me of not understanding her blackness and poorness.

reality didn't change... only perception changed... and it made a huge difference... in this case for the negative.

anyway... as for my own identity, i think of myself as a philosopher, as part establishment/part rebel, and as a person who can relate to just about any human being on the planet. and i think that is reflected in the circumstances and people in my life... my friends are puerto-rican, black, white, pakistani, asian, polish, albanian, south african, peruvian...

my parents wonder where i run into all of these people... i become friends or acquaintenances with more foreigners in a year than most people know in a lifetime. the weird thing is a don't seek out diverse friends... they come to me.

so in a way, i guess i don't fit the mold that you defined as a white guy who would be open to an interracial relationship or more. and since the last long term relationship i was in is within my race... i'd say race is not a factor i consider... i'm looking for character, and characteristics, and something that fits my perception of beauty.

leicaguy said...

tbg,

I'm a white, politically conservative guy in my mid 40's and I work as a Systems Engineer. I'm too geeky to be a wannabee, yet I'm engaged to a beautiful black woman who means the world to me. I hardly shout "wannabee" in my Ralph Lauren Polo shirts and chino pants!

I work in the defense industry on the East coast, and know two other engineers where I work (a very large facility) who are married to black women and they are not wannabees either.

I'm not saying that the wannabees don't exist, but I've only seen one wannabee, and where I live (MD suburbs outside of D.C.) you will see a number of WM/BF couples. Maybe wannabeeism is prevalent in the younger generation, but I think that you won't see it in people my age.

I enjoy your blog.

Natalie said...

While my white boyfriend loves hip-hop (more than I do) he also loves punk, metal, alternative, funk, motown, and some of everything in-between. The man just likes music. He certainly doesn't dress like a wannabe though. I would never date a wannabe, it's just kind of sad to me. He likes a thicker girl (good for me) and prefers women of color or white women with darker complexions. I guess my Black and Jewish self is pretty much a perfect match. It is interesting though what you see in interracial couples.

Most that I know bond on music, politics, humor, the normal things any couple would like to have in common. It may also be somewhat of a class thing?

Anonymous said...

I don't think so. I'm married to a private schooled, Foreign Exchange trading British guy who now produces films. We live in Manhattan. We both loved UNKLE, the Happy Mondays. I say go European!

classical one said...

Not all of us white guys who like black girls are vanilla ice types..

http://whitemenforblackwomen.blogspot.com/

j said...

i think austin is a very similar city to portland in many ways: very white, pretty hip/pseudo-liberal. i live there, and am a grad student. i feel compelled to share with you my experiences with white men.

i am a thin, dark-skinned black woman. sometimes i wear my hair straight; sometimes natural. i have a way of dressing that is either very quirky or very trendy. i say this to let you know how diff my appearance may be from day to day.

the constant--no matter what my look--is that i am continuously approached by white men: foreign and american; techies, lawyers and grad students; wasps in popped collars and science geeks...at clubs, in bookstores, at the grocery store, at concerts. all the time.

i have been approached by hip hoppish white guys on two occasions: once in nyc and once in greece.

i don't know why you haven't had that experience.

i don't date these men, though. my upper middle class fantasy life has always involved a dark skinned husband. i think this attitude is common among women who are a part of the black middle class. besides, i suspect white men probably view me as a novelty or a potential trip down exotica lane.

ick.

KC said...

i'm a "light-skinned black dude" whose turned-on by your blogs because they're a sincere attempt to tell it like it is...
I must say that you're right about ONE thins---these sorts of dynamics vary from place to place, demographic to demographic, history to history; par exemple, in Chicago, I'm unquestionably "Black" for the most part or "Latino" [depending on whose doing the looking]; yet, in other place, I've been seen or treated as a "White" guy or "Italian" in other places...it ultimately becomes a game of roulette:
who to be where & how to respond---it's taken me over 2 1/2 years to "Master" this game and, at the end of the day, it becomes more about self-perception...Anyway, I continue to pray for Black Women.

Anonymous said...

Well, I guess you've never known a white family that lived in a black neighborhood. Are those children necessarily being "wannabees" for talking,dressing, and listening to the same music as all of their friends they grew up with?? I doubt it...Skin color is a color, and on an individual level it is nothing more. Im a white male, and most of my friends are black and mexican because thats who lives next door. I alraedy know that many people judge me and call me "eminem" etc...well, little do they know Im a jazz musician and hardly listen to any hip hop. I was born and bred on Pearl Jam for that matter. But they see me, who I associate with and they can lump me into whatever category they want...This is precisely the problem with race issues today. NO ONE fits into a mold that society wants them to. Some people try to, but no one ever really succeeds. We are all unique no matter what, and trying to define someone by what music they listen to, what clothes they wear, or what slang words they use, well, its just stupid. and yes I date black girls...or rather I just date girls.

Afrodite said...

I heard California so my ears perked up. The "Chandler-type" dudes aint checkin' for black girls out here. Trust me, I was born and raised out here and it's hard to get a black guy's attention let alone a white-collar, white guys attention.

I guess you like who you like...

Anonymous said...

I'm a 38 year old WM Portlander who is committed to an amazing, fascinating african american woman. I am business suit dressing type by day and an Eddie Bauer/Polo dressing type otherwise.

I just can't really get into listening to hop hop music. It to me is too degrading to women. I do like Doug E Fresh's music though (he's fantastic).

I do love R&B music because of it's beautiful sensuality. I've just been introduced to the music of Erykah Badu and she is an amazing artist. I also love jazz and blues!

Vicki Nicole said...

you are so right, i usually date white guys and they do always seem to have a "swagger" to them, I never get the straight lace upper white class conservative guys, unless they are just slumming looking for interesting sex

keep it real said...

We has black women are some of the most beautiful species that god has created; therefore i know white guys are very attracted to us. most of the white hip hop type guys date black girls because they are associated with the same environment, but those straight lace white guys do be peeping us out and in my opinion...is intimidated of us in fear of being rejected, or their own families rejections. For those straight lace white guys who have dated black girls...most likely is a more advantage black girl. Hey no boy hating so do your own thang.

Steve said...

My teenage daughter calls them "whiggers". Black women are beautiful as they are. For years the media has tried to tell them they weren't good enough. There weren't places for them to buy hair and skin products they needed in the suburban areas or in some towns at all. THE WHITEWASHING OF CELEBRITIES MADE SOME OF THEM BELIEVE THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO LOOK WHITE. Unfortunate. I am a white man who listens to Motown, Some hio-hop and rap, but that isn't the whole spectrum. I borrow from all cultures what I enjoy. I am not trying to be someone else. I already have an identity. I love soul food and also know it is what my grandmother called "Southern cooking". They had been Texas dirt farmers so black eyed peas, okra, grits, greens, and fried chicken were the normal meal in her house. She could wring two chicken's necks at one time, pick some things from my grandfather's garden, and that was dinner for the two of them and eleven children.
I love black women. I think they are the most lovely creatures God put on this earth. I am going to start my own interracial blog to help me deal with my own fears brought on by years of social stigma that hasn't gone away completely yet. I believe that white men have, for years secretly admired black women but not until the past few years have we "come out of the closet" on our own desires because most of us have been ready for a while but now black women are letting us.
Now, why should a Goddess accept a pretender?
The thought seems almost delusional.
Is it acceptable because at times in the past blacks tried to be white? I don't know.